Therapy and a Snowman

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Katniss podcast cat. And I miss thing is a true life podcast or we explore the quirks of being human. All right, so welcome. It's the cat meows podcast. It's our first show.

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It's our first show and we don't know what we're doing. And we're really thankful that you're on the ride with

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us and you might get off it. Stop number one No, Hang with us for three full pockets hanging with us

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for three full podcasts. And then if you want to get off, you can. And if you want to stay on will welcome you with all kinds of lovely hospitality and hospitality around here. Looks like making sure everybody has the appropriate beverage. So for

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you, I don't have a mock tail today, but I do. Ah, have a fancy soda here.

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That's nice. You drink a coke zero now

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you really

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like cook zero. But like, really find a distinct difference between that and Diet Coke.

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Yeah, I mean, years ago I had Diet Coke and he's drinking all the time. And then I went through a phase right, injuring any soda because it was from the devil. And then I was out like a religious thing? Or was that like a health thing? Or like, what was your health? Like? Just mainly. I don't want to drink regular soda because that sugar in it and then it has all the bad stuff in it. So what about the things like the stuff that you

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confined? Like it whole foods or Trader Joe's? That's like the zero. This that's flavored like lime. But it

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has zero G m O and zero. This is zero. Have shirt. Like, if you're talking about No, no, like Ze via you mean. Yeah. I'm talking

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about the stuff that doesn't have sugar in it.

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It's good. It'll taste good. I like it. But it doesn't cause cancer. Supposedly how? I don't know. And why weren't we doing

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that back when I was drinking? Tab?

spk_0:   1:42
I don't Tab. Oh, I remember the paint can with you writing, I d'oh. I mean, that stuff was amazing. That tasted terrible. Well, I thought it was amazing. It was when my

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mom went from like our house went from Pepsi products. My mom would drink, she she told me six cans of Pepsi a day, and when she started weightwatchers, she started drinking tab and put our family like on Diet

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Cola's. Yeah, and that's kind of all I knew. Yeah,

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growing up. So we went from a Pepsi family to a tab family, too. Now, I feel like I'm a Diet Coke girl, and you're zero girl, and I

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still don't really

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feel like I understand why. I

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just think it tastes more like coke, like I actually like. Like, I really I just don't want the calories. Uh, I realize it's terrible for me. I don't want to hear about it. Yeah, I just every once in a while, like a coke zero. Yeah. What are you drinking?

spk_1:   2:34
I can appreciate that. Well, I'm drinking a, uh, a cold, buttery chardonnay called Franciscan.

spk_0:   2:40
Oh, that's your favorite. It's my favorite. Yeah. And everybody. Anybody who

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knows me knows, Like, that's kind of my go to my drink of choice. And, um, I just really enjoy it, so I'm glad to be having it. While we're having this discussion of not having nine glasses of it, I'm having one glass of it. Well,

spk_0:   2:55
that's good. Yeah, that would be a really interesting first podcast. You had nine,

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right? It it probably would be really boring, actually, cause you hear me snoring.

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Okay, so it's a new year. How has your break, Ben? And do you have any resolutions this year? Oh, thank you for asking. I It is a new

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year. My break has been absolute torture, like it's been absolute torture in. Here's why.

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Okay, It's because I looked on my

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calendar today because I started to dabble back into work. And one of the things that I really used to ground myself is my calendar, like in whether that's okay or not, I really don't care what anybody thinks, but for me, like my calendar is my thing. And so I went to the calendar today, and I looked I started

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anew. What the God. Okay, in the pot office, we have three animals,

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one of who is a consistent crier. Um,

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so anyway, so I discovered

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that, um, I started going to my new place of therapy about eight weeks ago, and two and 1/2 of those weeks have been a break between Christmas and New Year's, which, you know, in the industry I work in is typically off time

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and basically like that, time has the reason I describe it is torture is that I've really

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been facing some of the crap that that has been stewing and brewing in my heart and in my mind and in my soul. And and I've had all this timeto actually sit and think about it and and to consider, like, What am I gonna do with it? And it's

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been really hard because I'm very used

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to for decades now, like I'm talking more than 20 years. I'm used to just like Cat, get it done, get the job done, nose to the grindstone, get it.

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And you can relate because you you're

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a really brilliant and hard worker and very successful, accomplished business owner. Um,

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and and so, like, this break has been really hard

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for me because it it's it's really caused me. Two. What hasn't caused me? It's giving me the opportunity to have some perspective while not having kind of my go to work work, you know,

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And that's and that's been really hard because I've had I've had to deal with some real stuff that this worth dealing with. Yeah, I totally understand that. I think for me I have had some time with my sister, which is pretty much what I have left of my family. I've got two brothers as well, but, um, I have a moments this break, too. That was very enlightening. And ah, showed me a lot about who I am. So let me tell you something that I did. Okay, So are you You're aware of, like, the simple human garbage cans? Oh, yeah, that Ah, they're just don't they

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have, like, the bags that you can like, stretch around the can and they, like, fit perfectly or something like that,

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if you can afford them, right. If you get like, two or three and you get, like, three, and then they're like $6000 a box. At that point, you just have to buy the cheap blends of them. They provide a little pyramid scheme, a pyramid scheme. So it's basically a garbage can. That's fancy. Right? So, um, I got a new one because my old simple human I felt like I was taking out the garbage. Every single day is like, how can one human create this much garbage? So I bought a bigger one because that's what you do when you're an American, and, uh so I have a large, simple human garbage can I'm really excited about. And I have this extra one that, um we didn't eat at the office or anything, So my sister was visiting and I said, Hey, look, I got you this garbage can. I was like, It's only a year old and you could have it. And she just looks up and she says, I don't need that. And I said, What do you mean? This is like $100 garbage can and you I'm gonna give it to you. So that's actually not what you say. You say, like, you know, Yeah, well, that was in my head. And she's like, thinks this, but I don't need it. And, um, so instead of, you know, receiving that and hearing her, I took the garbage bags that fit that garbage Can. I put them in the bottom of the can and I got her car keys and walked out to her car, popped her trunk and put the garbage can in her trunk, closed the trunk, came back in and said, I put it in the car

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for you. Yeah, you're convinced that it's gonna make her life

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better. That's the thing, Cat. I believe that I have been put on this Earth to make people's lives to improve people's lives. Well, I mean, I can attest to that. I think that that's a real thing. I think that's a problem, though, because my sister laughed. Luckily, she's just a kind, good hearted, sweet person, and she's used to me doing this for most of my life. But it was a moment for me where I like, saw myself kind of out out of my body and was like, Okay, you know what you're doing. You're pushing something on someone. They don't want it. But in my mind, I'm thinking you have this crappy little plastic her plastic can waste basket or whatever that you use in your kitchen under your sink. That literally is like 12 inches tall. And you have to undo it. You know, a 1,000,000 times a day, Yeah, in your you're like

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in making her life better. Improving her life by giving her $100 simple human trash can.

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Do you notice? I had to mention how much it costs, right? Like these things air problems. I mean, like I picture it like it's on. Um, the price is right, and there's, like, a light coming down. It's like, how much does this can cost? And people have to guess, you know, and it's like I want her to see the beauty of this garbage can. Yeah, but like, I don't understand, I'm either gonna give it to you or give it to someone else. Probably goodwill. Like, why would you not want my fancy garbage can? But in that moment, like I talked it out with my counselor, As you know, I've had many therapists, and we'll get into that. But I'm talking through my counselor, and I was like, What is it about me? And was like, Well, it comes back to control, and I'm like, but I'm not trying like I'm I feel like I'm very generous. And so she's like, Yeah, but you want to determine what she wants. I was like, but I legitimately want to know why you wouldn't want a fancy garbage can when you have a plastic one, right? Right, Right. I'm putting these two things in front of you and you continue to pick the one that is a small waste basket and at the same time, too,

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it's like you don't know. I mean, she's your sister, so you know are fairly well. But you don't know her entire perspective like she might have a thing with trashcans in that really small trash can might really be representative of something that brings her piece or something like that perspective you just may never

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have exactly. But in my mind she has a thing with not receiving things because I constantly one like I just ship Amazon boxes to our house like, Oh, you know, pop up like recommended and I'll be like my sister needs new cutlery. Let me send her And she's like, You know, I don't like gold cutlery like silver and I'm like, No, gold is better And it's just really interesting to watch, especially with family. How those dynamics play out.

spk_1:   10:09
Oh, yeah, And you think you know what? What is best? You know, I'm the same with Amazon with my mom, like my mom probably get something once every two weeks and probably is like, Why is this on my doorstep? And it's like, Well, I got this for you because of data you know, whatever it is, and it's like, you know, on the other end, she could be doing, like, one of two things. She'd be all that's so sweet, that so useful and helpful to me. Or she could be on the other end going Why in the world

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why does she think I need? Why does she think I need these things? My little niece, My best friend's little baby? Um, she's two and 1/2. And when FedEx ups or Amazon drops things off, she yells on E, which is her nickname for me. So she basically thinks that I am the person behind all gifts, which I'm not upset about because I might get credit for things that I didn't send. Yeah, but, uh, yeah, I think there might be a small problem there. OK, so today's episode we are talking about therapy therapy. Love it. Okay, so both of us have done therapy for at least a decade. At least a lifetime E. I mean, I was going to therapist is a 13 year old. You were? Yeah,

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I've been I've been going to therapy for my whole life. Like when I was 13 years old. My mom had our family in family counseling because our family was going through a divorce. And I think that she knew that that was really important for us. So

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I'm I've been in therapy settings firm decades. Wow. My first was because of Freddy Krueger. And then I went as a kid because of my scare of an earthquake. And because you experienced an earthquake. No, There was like, um, an earthquake. That was, um, I think was December 3rd, 1990. I'm right that they They said it was a called like they predicted it predicted an earthquake, which I don't think you can. D'oh. Um

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And you went to therapy for that?

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Yeah, because I was fearful of it beforehand. Um, but none of it was like a few sessions for those, But it wasn't until I can blame there be on moving to Nashville music industry. Yeah, made me stay consistent with therapy. A music

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industry keeps the mental therapy business in business in this town.

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So true. I mean, where we go is actually on music row. Yeah, we have different therapists, but we go to the same place, but, um uh, I want to comment on the fact that I've had a few therapist, is it now? Is it because you just, like,

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wear a mountain? They

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die. Or like Well, no. So the 1st 1 I Since when I came to Nashville. The 1st 1 I think you might. This might be familiar to you. Ah, I had a therapist too. Would basically fall asleep during

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that session. No, that's not okay. That is not okay.

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Well, you know who I'm talking. Well, let's try and act like I did it, and yeah, that was

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really annoying when that would happen. Not not in

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a full snore. It wasn't a full sniper. It was just like it was like Like the head would go down like it was like, uh I mean, you know, they're bobbing their heads. Yeah, you had a plane when you see people. And then there was, like, a Yeah, and it's like you look up paying you money to care about what? I'm talking about it. It's not that long. It's only like 35 50 minutes, you know? Yeah, it's just not

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okay in that one too. If I remember correctly, she didn't say your name right correct. And it's like, No, you can't get my name right or stay awaken our session just like no, you're fired.

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So I moved on from her and, um although I thought she was great, you know? No, she's amazing, is good for the time being, And then a few years later, I kind of want a few years without therapy. And then I moved on to another therapist who was a little bit older, quite a bit older. Let's be honest. And I think I sort of graduated from her because, um, I couldn't really get her to help me make decisions. And I don't need some pretty decisive. But there were some big decisions that I was like, What do you think about this? And her answer was always like, I think you're gonna make the best decision based on any decision you make is going to be special and not now you. But you also weren't

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looking for her to say this is the decision I should make.

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I was looking for someone that would push me and challenge him, though, and, uh so, yeah, there was just a sort of, ah natural progression that I moved out of that relationship. And then I found the the dream therapists that I've been with for probably three years, and she just last month chose to retire, and she's just an amazing human. But not because of you I'm not sure about. I'm not sure. In fact, she didn't like his new retirement. She said that she was going on adventures, which I loved. Yeah, but I'm not sure if I contributed to that or not. So, uh, so that was really sad. And I actually really had to grieve that because she had been I had gone to her every week for almost three years. So And this is the

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famous Dr B right? Dr B? That's what we call

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her. Um, and I'm sure all reference her, but, um, so she's amazing. And so she gave me Ah, plenty of time to figure out who was next and give me some suggestions. And so anyway, I've been going to this new therapist who I really love. Um, we're kind of getting used to one another, and I think she's gonna be a good fit, but it's, ah, one of the things that she has put me in a particular has been the role play. Have you ever done that? No role play. And so in some of my any Graham training, they do role play where they'll have someone come up who say that I'm having issues with my husband and their type six on the anagram and they'll ask for the crowd, male or female. Is there anyone type six and they'll come up and do that. But I've never done that in therapy. Oh wow. So this has all been very new for me and therapy and, um, and very uncomfortable. Like I love talk therapy. I I have huge breakthroughs. I I'm somebody that moves fast on change, but this has been really difficult, so we've done it a few times once with my mom who's passed away. She wanted me to speak to her about some things. We actually did it with my former therapist. Don't talk through, like so the grieving and the closure process. Um, but the way she makes me do it is she'll say she she's a little Ottoman that you could open up in a happily scarves in there with different colors. She'll say, Can you pick out Ah, scarf. Ah, that A color that reminds you of that person. You know, you really go purple. Maybe. And then you have to put it in the chair crying like, yes, as long as the person is a VeggieTales care. Exactly. All right. It's like I don't know. So you pick out a scar if you lay it in that chair, and then you have to talk to them and it is so uncomfortable, right? Like I I worry more about how awkward it is. And I really don't care what people think, but it's usually just not very great. So we've moved on from the role playing. Oh, that's good. Now we're just focused on talk therapy, but, um, we thought it was important. And one of our first podcast both kind of build the foundation of talking about how much they're b has met to each

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of us. Yeah, and I mean, it really has to both of us. And thank God, thank you for all of our therapists for dipping your job and being in the profession that you've been in. The kind of therapy that I've been doing is way new to me, like there's order. At least there's a part of it that's way new to me. A friend of mine told me about, um, about a thing called somatic therapy, and I had to go look that up. I don't know what that was, and basically it It's basically saying that like your body and your emotions are connected, it is like a layman's way to say it. Um and so I I literally did this search. I was like, Okay, we're in Nashville like, are their therapists in Nashville that do somatic there because this friends in California and you know, things were just always way cooler in California. And, um and I found this place, and it was interesting to me because, like, the tagline of the place said, A I don't know if it is a place or what, but it said a place for holistic healing. And when I think of holistic, I immediately think I need to go to Whole Foods and find gluten free granola and get some essential oils like that to me, is what holistic means. Um, so again, I won't look the word up. I'm like, what does holistic being in it actually means of mind, body and spirit. And so, the way the approach that this organization takes toward therapy is is they're gonna they want you to go through experiential therapy that basically addresses what all is going in your mind, but also what is going on in your body and also what is going on in your spirit. And I just thought that was so cool, like I'm pretty spiritually person. So, you know, the more I can dig in and learn about that, the more I want to. So So, basically, what I did is I went and I filled out. There's this intake form that you fill out and ask you all these, you know, super deep questions about your your life and your experiences. And so, basically, terrifyingly enough, I put all this information in an intake form on the internet. So, dear God, I hope that they're like, back in secured system is really secure. Because, like I told these people my life story, cause I'm like, I'm not gonna waste their time or my money. You figuring out my story? Let me just give you everything I can give you so that we can kind of start at where I'm out right now. Um and so I basically said, Like, you know, I'm the CEO of my organization. I want to talk to the CEO of your organization. I want that to be my initial intake person. And, uh, I also said things like, you know, I'm really interested in, um, integrated bodywork, because that's something I don't know anything about. But if if I am understand the holistic healing process, it does have to do with mind, body and spirit. So I want to do whatever we can do like having to do with my body. That's gonna, um, be helpful. And so anyway, so the integrated bodywork is really cool because basically what what they do is there's all kinds of modalities out there with this stuff that I've been reading about. But basically it addresses things like chakras, the meridians in the body, the you know, the energy flow from from the tips of your toes to the top, your head like, for example, when you inhale the proper way to inhale is to inhale from the tips of your toes through the bottom of your feet up the back of your legs up your back and into the top of your head. And then when you exhale, you exhale from the top, your head down through the front of the body, front of your legs, you know, out through your toes and supposedly that's a thing. And there's all these, like, you know, gurus and and people who are ancient people who have studied this stuff and, you know, Eastern China and stuff like that. India and all of that. Um And so I thought,

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you know, I'm gonna give it a shot. I'm gonna get a shot and it's been

spk_1:   20:41
really cool. It has really dug up some, um, some interesting emotions and experiences, and I feel like it's kind of help me crack up in something that I haven't had access to before, and that's been really neat.

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So what does like a session look like? Are you just doing talk therapy or how are you integrating your body in that? Okay, so the

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talk therapist is is mostly talk therapy, but every now and then she'll be like, OK, like, do you feel that somewhere in your body, like when you talk about that anxiety and I'm like, yes, I feel it in my chest. I feel it in my stomach or or whatever. So there's one therapist that I go to the talk therapy and we talk about how my body feels. And then the other therapist is the integrative bodywork person. And we talk a little bit just to kind of kind of get in the same vibe on the same page. You know, it's like you don't want to just, like, walk in and have a stranger start like pushing your pressure points, you know? And so So we talk for a little bit, and I always find that, you know, really cool and exciting the things we talked about. And then I get on a massage table fully closed, like it's not like a undress massage or anything. And, um, she plays pretty music with, like Piccolo's and flutes in the background and occasional like nylon string guitar, something like that. And, um, and then kind of starts by, you know, placing her hands like under my shoulders and kind of does this back and forth thing. And then each session after that has been different. You know, some sessions she has, you know, held different pressure points and asked me if I can visualize anything like, Do you see a color when I hold that pressure plane? Or do you see you know, an animal? Where do you see? And it's really nice because she also says, If you don't see anything, that's fine, too, you know? So it

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doesn't feel like Oh my God, I'm supposed to be seeing a red dragon right now that's coming out my belly button. You know, it's

spk_1:   22:20
like that. It's not. It doesn't make me feel any pressure to see anything, but it's it's interesting because I'll go through those sessions and think, I don't really know what that did And then, like for the next two weeks before I go see her again, it's like she has like it. I said this to you. I think the other day is that I feel like emotionally I have been a dry rotted fire hose and I feel like by doing this integrative bodywork, I feel like the water faucet has been turned on and the hose is like spazz ing out like they're stupid things you see on the side of the road that look like it's a like a tall red man. That's just like Luke, you know, it's like I feel like the water has been turned on and the pressure from the faucet being on is just like, kind of making the hose go wild. But like it's not bad. It's a little bit scary, but it's not. It's like I don't want it to stop. Like I told her the other day, I said, I said, This is so intense And she was like, Well, do you like, Do you want it to stop? And I said,

spk_0:   23:22
No, no, I don't because I want to

spk_1:   23:24
be able to talk to articulate how I feel and think and, you know, figure some of my stuff out. So

spk_0:   23:30
we used to the other day you felt like, um that you've been asleep for so many years and you're just waking up? Yeah, like that's a huge

spk_1:   23:38
huge. And in the other day I said, I said Thio, forget which therapist I said it to you, but I said, It's kind of freaking me out because I feel alive. Yeah, I'm 44 I've been alive for 44 years, but I am just I'm just now feeling alive and what is that?

spk_0:   23:55
I really feel like I've seen you more confident than you've ever been and also more broken open like you. You're just letting the emotions like flow through you instead of putting on any armor or trying to block it, you know? And it's like, think about if you are actually connecting your emotions to your body, how integrative that truly is to say, Like I'm staying with my body. Yep. Like I'm gonna sit in these emotions and stay with my bottom. I've had to learn a lot about that in sobriety as well to recognize, like, Okay, I'm gonna sit here. I'm gonna feel it, and I'm not gonna die. Wow. Yeah, I'm just gonna let it like they're one of my favorite. I think it's a Buddhist. Um, phrase is the idea of letting it flow like a river. And the phrases be a river, and it actually might be a Rumi quote. But, um, yeah, I like the idea of, like getting in the water and letting it take you where it needs to take you. And And if we look at life that way, how amazing is that. I mean, obviously, we're still gonna have a really tons of hurt, lots of pain and loss and all these things, but, uh, we just keep we do keep moving. Yeah, And to instead of fighting against that, getting in that water and going Yeah, um, you were

spk_1:   25:17
telling me a story the other day about your friend who you felt the need to protect.

spk_0:   25:22
Do you remember that? Story s. So this was a big highlight in my therapy last year. I would say, Ah, and it kind of goes back to the same thing that happened with my sister and the garbage can. Um, but I was having some conflict with a friend of mine and well, I would even say it was conflict. It was disconnection would probably be the best way to say it. And, um and I was talking to my therapist about it, and I was like, Okay, I have this friendship and I can't quite figure out why it's not flowing. And we're not connecting in the way that we used Thio and she was like, Okay, she's like what she's like. I want you to answer me quickly when I ask you this. I want it just top of mind, Okay? And she said, um, what is it that you want for her? What do you want to be for her. And I said, I want to protect her, and Ah, and she was, like, interesting. And I was like, Yeah, and she's like, Okay, what are you protecting her from? And I was like, I don't even know, like, I'm protecting her from loss and hurt and all the hard things that, you know, you would want to protect a family member or a friend from and she's like, Okay. And then she paused and kind of had this. My therapist positive kind of had this look on her face, and she just said, What if she doesn't want to be protected? Oh, my gosh, I know did that. You look a Briggs like a semi truck, and I was splattered all over the front like it was like because, you know, just to dabble any Graham in here again, it's like I'm in eight, which is called the protector of times. And, um, like that is my love language. I think, Ah, it's it's how it's how I shall love is I let people around me that are close to me. No, like I got your back, right? And so for me, that is a very high value to saying that, like, I'm gonna protect you. So I call my friends, and I and I I knew

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that she would say she wanted me to protect her. And I was

spk_0:   27:17
just like, hey told her the whole therapist saying And I just said, What is it? Ah, I know I said, I have one question for you, and she said Okay. And I said, Do you want me to protect you? And she said no. And then she followed it with God, No, it was like, Hold on to yourself here. And I I mean, my heart just like dropped. And and she said, Honestly, like, that's the last thing I want you to do. I just want you to be present with me. And it was a moment where I was like, Okay, honey, this is a It was one of those things where you're like, this is a big moment for me to recognize how I walk in my relationships. And so all that to say that was a moment for me just to recognize like OK, the way I love is not the way everyone wants to receive love. And so I need to recognize that protection to some people feels like suffocation and and honestly, like I'm not a very needy person. And I wasn't like being overbearing in this way, But the one thing I was offering was not what that person would. Yeah, it's I don't like when

spk_1:   28:22
you give words of affirmation to a gift giver. It's like, Well, that's probably nice to be told something nice about yourself. But what I really would love or what would be meaningful is if you were to, you know, bring me a cup of coffee from Starbucks in the morning or whatever it

spk_0:   28:35
is. I know exactly. So that was when I started really, like paying attention to like, Okay, just because this is what I need isn't what everyone's looking for. Yeah, that's it. That's a

spk_1:   28:45
great revelation. And I love one thing. I love about your story, too, and in that, you know, is that like you got hit by a Mack truck and were splattered all over the front of it. and you're still going back, right? It's like you're willing to do the work. And I think that that's really admirable in in. One thing that I've learned in my last appointment is is that I am brave, and so I want to give that back to you are at least offer that to you is that's really brave. It's brave to go. I'm willing to step back in there and get hit by a Mack truck again, right? Because that's gonna make me better. Yeah, One of the things that, um, that I learned in my therapy session recently is that, um I went in there and this was before the holidays, and, um and this was with the, um the lady that does integrative bodywork. And she said, What

spk_0:   29:32
do you What do you

spk_1:   29:33
feel like? You know what's on your mind today? And I said, Well, I said, I'm a little bit worried about the holidays. So the holidays kind of stress everybody out for all the obvious reasons. And, um, she's like, Well, what? What do you need in the holidays? Like you've got all these stressors that you're talking about, but what do you need and I said, I just need to rest I said, I work so hard and I've been working so hard and, um, I feel like I wish that I could just be like a snowman that, like, melts into a puddle And she kind of looked at me in and I was like, Not like in a Snowman dies because he melts into a puddle, but more from like just to be like Oh my gosh, like, let's not be so strong and stringent and rigid and in charge and so on and so forth and let me just melt and kind of take it easy And she's like, Okay, it's okay. And so we talked a little bit more and we talked about different, different people in my life, different relationships, different situations that may or may not come up and so on and so forth and said that a little while later I got up on the massage table to, you know, have the bodywork stuff done, and she you know, she did a couple of things and you know, God is both kind of in this super almost like otherworldly trance or something that just felt really relaxing and comfortable and and she said, You know, I would like, you know, to offer that maybe you think about the holidays. You think about what has come into your mind about the holidays and in some of those things that stress you out. And I was like, Well, like I could feel my anxiety just kind of rising. And she said, And I would like to offer to you that, um, maybe you could consider that that you're your own snowman, that your your snowman and the other people we've talked about in this session, they're their own snowman. So if they want to be frozen in rigid or passive aggressive or mean or do activities that you're not interested in or whatever you're your own snowman, you don't have to participate in that.

spk_0:   31:26
I love that.

spk_1:   31:28
And they also can be there on Snowman and not have to participate in whatever you're doing. And maybe that would allow you two to stand there as your own snowman and be able to melt, be able to rest. And I mean, it revolutionized my entire holiday season.

spk_0:   31:48
So how did you implement that?

spk_1:   31:49
I literally well, And it wasn't even it. I started implementing it with work before the holidays actually got started. And I had a conversation with a client that really frustrated me, and I got off the phone and I thought, you know what? She's her own snowman. I'm my own snowman in, like, I'm sorry that she's got those, you know, whatever. I don't remember what the conversation was now, but whatever the issues was she was dealing with weren't mind to deal with.

spk_0:   32:12
So you're saying they feel what they want? I know what I want, and we all are okay.

spk_1:   32:16
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I remember mentioning it to you at one point. And you're like, Well, cat,

spk_0:   32:21
what is the

spk_1:   32:21
worst thing that's gonna happen? Like you're gonna have to call an ambulance. Like if something happens like wild. Everybody's thrown together at your house and it's really terrible, like, the worst thing that can happen is somebody's gonna stomp off and go in another room, or you're gonna have to have to call

spk_0:   32:35
911 you know, and I thought it's really not that bad.

spk_1:   32:39
You know, the stressors that I've been carrying into situations really aren't that bad. So, um so,

spk_0:   32:44
Yeah, Beer and snowman. I think it's

spk_1:   32:45
a It's a It feels like an elementary concept, and it also feels like a universally Why's

spk_0:   32:51
concept? I have used it since you told me that, and the only thing I have added is I want to throw a little snow globe on top to keep everyone in their own environment so they don't come and mess with my snow man's. Now you

spk_1:   33:04
have your own weather system in

spk_0:   33:05
there. Exactly. You get to create what the weather is inside of your snow globe

spk_1:   33:09
snowing, or it's sunny out or whatever. So so basically like when you come up against a situation where you're like okay, like I need to be me and they need to be them. You're kind of envisioning, like, almost like this, you know, like like the shield around the Death star. You know, it's like, OK, this is the shield. Nothing can get through. It

spk_0:   33:25
drops down and you're like your own snowman. That's amazing. I love it. Yeah, I was with a friend, um, yesterday having lunch, and she's a co worker and friend and ah, we're both eights on the angiogram and we got talking about? Both of our therapists have encouraged us to get back in touch with the the soul child. You know that some people call it Soul child. Just your inner, you know, And they will give you an age and say, Hey, is there a specific age that comes to mind when you started these behaviors? And for me, mine has always been six. And there was a little trauma there within my family and stuff. Um, but, um, that age is very difficult for me. Um, and we got talking about we were totally being serious. But we had the moment where we were like, What does that even mean? That you get back in touch with them and her therapist wanted her to do play with that child. And so she keeps selling your like, even as a 40 some year old woman like, I want you to learn to play like that three year old or that five year old or whatever it is. And for me, like my therapist wants me to write to her, and she's she she's like, What freaks you out was like, Anything freaks me out. She's like, Can you do 12 minutes of writing, and I was like, Sure, and she's, like, wants me to bring that in and talk to her. And for both of us, as eights being the protector, and at very young ages, we became, um you know, we thought we were in charge of the family unit. Um, it is the scariest thing in the world for us to think about talking to that younger kid. Well, mainly because for me, I'll speak for me. Um, it's so scary because I feel like I didn't protect her in a lot of ways, you know? And not the six year old knows how to protect themselves. They shouldn't. But, um, the idea of actually having that conversation feels so difficult Design. How does that feel to you? And it makes me

spk_1:   35:23
feel like I'm a few things immediately come to mind. And I remember I had an experience. Um, Garcia's is probably, you know, 25 27 years ago was the first time that that particular concept, they didn't call it the inner child. It would I forget what it was, but But I remember when I was a teenager, I went through a pretty traumatic statutory rape situation. And, um and it's something that you know, just like everything that happens in life. It's something that you know really has the opportunity to shape you and, you know, cause the way you think and so on and so forth. And, um, I remember being in this it was like a church setting. And I remember talking about this this issue and I remember the counts are saying, What age were you when that happened? I said I was 15 and she was like, Wow, okay. And then it's immediately I felt ashamed. I felt embarrassed. I was like, I was apparently a real promise keys 15 year old, you know, And and, uh And And she said to me and she goes, Can you, um can you remember other things from being that age like, aside from that thing happening? And I was like, Oh, yeah, totally. And she says, Do you know any 15 year olds right now? And I thought about it for a minute. I was like, Yeah, I know like three or 4 15 year olds. And she goes, How would you feel if you found out that what happened to you happened to one of these 15 year olds? I said I would murder the guy like I would absolutely want to rip him to shreds. And she said, Can you consider that maybe you could feel that for yourself? The right and it just like my mind was blown because it's like I've been living my whole life, you know, up until that that moment in time, you know, even two decades ago, thinking like carrying all the shame and in fear. And what if and all this kind of stuff? And it's like, instead of instead of sitting with myself and going like, Okay, you were 15 years old. You don't know how to protect yourself from something like that, necessarily. At 15 and so

spk_0:   37:24
I think that that kind of work is really

spk_1:   37:25
important because it really it kind of It starts to reshape the way that over and over and over and over you've trained your brain. You've trained your body. You've trained your heart to respond when something happens. And, um, I think it's a really valuable tool.

spk_0:   37:42
I do, too. I just don't I think it's hard. I think what one other piece to this therapy thing that is so important is, um, again yesterday with my friend and I were talking, we both talked about how, um, any kind of traumatic thing that happens in your life. Especially, I think, in our generation, it wasn't really talked about in the family system, right? Like, um, you know, some hard things happen in our family and, um, or even taboo things, you know, like, um um, my uncle being gay, Um it was like nobody ever talked about it, you know? And it wasn't that we even lived in a very conservative hole. It wasn't like that. It was just We don't talk about these things. And I think it's generation to generation. Like I was telling my friend yesterday, I said, Our parents, That's how they grew up. Their parents did not talk about things right. It was talked about once, and that was it, right? Hush. Isn't

spk_1:   38:45
that so interesting? And it's like like how, uh, how unintentionally damaging, like to a child especially, you know? And it's like now it makes me *** like with my nephews, for example, or with, you know, like my second cousins and stuff like that. It's like, Okay, how can I be a Nen fluency in their lives that that does differently than that, right? You know, how can I bring up that? You know, my nephew wanted to quit violin lessons without shaming him, but still being ableto let him express. Here's why I did that. And here's why. That was hard for me and you know, someone and so forth so that that's

spk_0:   39:23
a

spk_1:   39:24
really a great I think, admonition For those of us, that air now in the age is that our parents were when we were that age is to go like, OK, can we Can we help mold and shape our generation just a tiny bit better? Then the last generation is has been able to, and it really is that even a responsibility?

spk_0:   39:42
Yeah, And I think, um, I think it's There's something about, um, just even stating that there's anything you need to talk about anything you know to me in life, because it's like, I mean, we have friends who have kids that are teenagers now and, um are going through a really hard things, and I see like the parents sometimes getting frustrated like Oh my gosh, they're smoking pot or they're, um, you know, they're already sexually active or something like that. And it's like part of me wants to say, like, Thank God they're telling you that, though, right? You know, like there they are willing enough to like, open their hearts and say Like I trust you, you're safe place and I get that. That's got to be scary as a parent. I mean, I can't specifically say what that must be like, Dr, either. However, it's like, um, you know, going back to my 15 year old self It's like that would be incredibly difficult to even say that to your parents much. Let's trust them to hold that. So it's like I think that's that's why therapy is necessary for so many people is, you know, you have it an hour. However, often you go allocated to just talk about something with someone who is completely separated from your life. So they really have nothing

spk_1:   40:56
to judge you for, right, right? And in one of the things to you that that I think is also freely special about it is I'm kind of repeating what you just said. But it's like you. You're close enough to me that we have a relationship like you're my therapist, but you're not so close to me that you still can't have an objective standpoint. And I just think that that's I think that's really, really valuable.

spk_0:   41:20
I did, too. So I have this recurring dream that I have brought into therapy and kind of picked apart a little bit. And I've been having it for about five years. And the dream is simply I buy this farmhouse and it's one of those like Colonial looking flat fronts that have two floors. Um, probably 18 hundreds early 19 hundreds. Uhm, I buy this farmhouse, and, um, I invite all these friends over. I'm so excited about this new home and there's no houses around. It has all this acreage, and it's kind of a dream home for me in the stream. And ah, so I invite, like, 5 10 friends over, um, and to see, to see the new house and kind of like, welcome it as my new home. What do you call that housewarming party? Thank you. Housewarming party. And so, um, they come in and there's like this long hallway that leads back to the kitchen in the back of the house and along the hallway there's all these doors that you're guessing, or probably a parlor, a living room. Ah, bedroom. But they're all the doors, and the doors were shut. And so I'm welcoming people in, and I'm basically like, this is my house and we walked back to the kitchen and everyone brings a little food item or wine or whatever it is, And, um, and we stand in the kitchen basically arounds like this bar area, and I'm just like telling them about this house and how I bought it. And I'm glad they drove out here and all of this. And so somebody says, Can I can I see the house? And I'm like, Oh, this is the house And, ah, long story short. Like, um, the dream has been a little bit different each time, but it's always people coming to visit and all the doors are closed, and I never let anyone in those doors. They're allowed in the in the hallway, back to the kitchen, and there's kind of, you know, bar stools and stuff sitting back there. But I don't really let them in, which is clearly about me closing my doors and not letting people into my life. Is that what your therapist said, though, like it was that the feedback that she gave you? Is that what that dream means? I mean, I I don't know if that's what the dream means, but I've had it so many times, and it's usually been around a time in a relationship where, like somebody wants more of me than I'm willing to give. I usually dream it then, but, um, the most interesting piece of it is. Most recently I have dropped it and and nobody is coming to visit. I walk in that same house and on the left hand side, the first store and this like, gives me chills, even say this like I can hear a little girl playing. Oh wow. And she's like the best way to describe it is she's playing like Jax or pick up sticks or something, where it's like you tell she's rolling something and then, like you here, like giggles and stuff like this, which is a creepy ex, is something of a horror film. But I think maybe that's like the little kid I think she's coming back to, like, Yeah, she wants us to hang out. But I'm scared to death. Over. Uh, Well,

spk_1:   44:13
I I think maybe the next time you dream that if you can I I know there's a terminology for when you can think during your dreams. It's a turn. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Um, it's like you said dreaming or so I don't know what it's called. But I wonder if the next time that dream occurs if you can talk to yourself in the dream If you can open the door,

spk_0:   44:33
dude, Like, what would it be what she's like a scary, like, black eyed

spk_1:   44:37
kid or something? Well, then you'd probably wake up in in night sweats. Yeah, which again? What's the worst thing you have to call an ambulance? You don't have to, like, go get a drink.

spk_0:   44:46
Water. Like, you know, I think he's over the door. Okay.

spk_1:   44:53
I mean, you talk about being an AIDS in the angiogram, which I'm really fascinated with two. And I held you one of the experts on it, but, um, one of the things that I've learned about myself is my any Graham type is, too. And, um, that's the helper oftentimes called the Helper. And I've really started to go back and not just go. Hey, I accept that I'm a too. But it's like what happened in my life that other than my hard wiring of being a to like what? What kind of assisted that type of behavior in me and much like what you said in being the protector and feeling like for some reason, you had to protect your whole family. I felt like I had to help my mom. Oh, and And when our family started going through the divorce that that we went through in, my mom and dad divorced. I really felt like and my mom didn't do this to me. My mom didn't ask me to help her, like I just took it upon myself to go. Now I have to take the place of my dad in this household.

spk_0:   45:49
Yeah, you took on that role

spk_1:   45:51
I did, and it's interesting in in all of my relationships, like in business, you know, in in just life and so on and so forth. It's like the first and immediate thing I bring to the relationship is how can I help? And that's been something really worthy of looking at.

spk_0:   46:06
That's amazing. I, um I It's funny because you and I joke about in business. Sometimes I think you're in ages. Which two's go to a bar in integration or stress? There's a debate whether that goes both ways, but, um, so it's a natural thing that you do go to a but we always joke. We almost swapped roles and the business side of things. Um, but in the personal side, you're definitely too.

spk_1:   46:30
Yeah, I'm a personal side, definitely a two. But it it is questionable if if it's if it's work related, like

spk_0:   46:36
who?

spk_1:   46:36
I can act like you a little bit. And

spk_0:   46:38
I'm kind of proud of that. Actually. Scary, actually. Um, okay. So question for you, like my therapist. Ask me, like, can you remember the the first time that you sat with your family and you wanted to be the protector and my answer was, Yeah, I was six years old and I called a family meeting, which is that's ah, with some ways. But of course, I was trying to control the situation, like for you. Can you think of like that one thing, even if it's like a funny thing where you're like, OK, I will be the help where I'm

spk_1:   47:09
gonna take on this role. Yeah, I remember. And in the sleepy therapist, the one that would fall asleep during our sessions that we talked about. She's the one that taught me that a lot of times, memories aren't complete. It's not like you remember the beginning, middle and end of a memory, Um, memories air a little bit like if you look at a piece of film and there's like three three slides or, you know, like three frames like That's what a memory is And so to answer your question, I do have a memory of that. And it's It's interesting that now that I've been doing the integrative bodywork, I can even attach a feeling in my body to it. But I remember when my mom told me that her and my dad were getting a divorce. I remember exactly where I was. I remember what it looked like, and I remember in again, this is just a feeling in my body. But I had this immediate like I wanted to spring up and fix it like I wanted to spring up and help. And so, yeah, that's what that's what I and I'm not saying that that's the reason that I'm a two. But it is a memory that I have associated with. Yeah, I think that was around the first time that I thought. Ok, then then then put me in coach. You know, You know how I could go in and help tackle this situation?

spk_0:   48:17
That's amazing. I I love what you just shared on memories because, um, I'm actually really fascinated with, um, you know, even growing up with our siblings and how we see memories differently on how we experience things differently. And my sister and I, uh, recently recorded something where we discuss that and we talk about, ah, house, some of our memories, They're just wrong thing, just completely wrong. Ah, we'll share that another episode. But, um, one of the quotes that I absolutely love is ah is forgiveness changes the way we remember. Mmm. Isn't that cool? Wow. Because it's like all of a sudden, if you can soften and really, you know, just not even I think forgiveness is the word I would want to use. But even acceptance to a certain level of that happens, and I'm going to embrace it and let it flow in and out of me. But then it changes the way you remember because it's not. It may not be that you're angry anymore about the way something happens. You're You may even choose to be grateful for it. One of the

spk_1:   49:26
things that you and I have in common is we love people, and we love hearing people's experiences todo eso If if you've If you've been listening and you are willing to share some of your experiences with us, we would love to hear about your time and therapy. And, you know, if it was cmdr if it was brain spotting, if it was talk therapy, if your therapist

spk_0:   49:47
fell asleep on you, we would love

spk_1:   49:51
to hear about it, and you're free to reach out to us at hello at Cat and Moose podcast dot com

spk_0:   49:57
Cat with a K special thanks to our producer, Sarah. To find out more, go to captain years podcast dot com. That news is a BP production